Baptist Pastor goes to Hillsong Conference!

 

__2020109_orig*** This post was taken from a comment on the blog written by a Moonee Ponds Baptist Church (MPBC) member back in 2013 and is published as requested (with minor edits). Since this article was originally posted, Greg (the Baptist pastor in reference) has gone to the Hillsong conference in Sydney every year and is incorporating the compromised Hillsong and Rick Warren’s Church “growth” Model to the Moonee Ponds Baptist Church ***

******************************************************************************

A: Did you hear, Pastor Greg went to the Hillsong Conference!

B: – What??? Is that a joke?

A: No, it’s not a joke.

B: – But why would he do that? Is he unwell? Is he in his right frame of mind? What true Christian, even with a basic theological familiarity goes to the Hillsong conference? Did Greg go there to find out how messed up the Hillsong church and their theology is, so that he can learn from their mistakes and avoid the obvious pitfalls?

A: Can’t be sure if he’s in a right frame of mind. Apparently, he went there to learn how to “grow the church” and “worship” music – You know they worship music at Hillsong, don’t you? Music, lights and entertainment take the main stage.

B: – So, Greg must have gone there on his own time and money?

A: No! It appears that he went there on the Church’s time and money!!

B: – Does the church leadership know about this?

A: They certainly do. The current leadership constitutes mostly of older women who blindly support Greg. Unfortunately, they don’t care about the spiritual welfare of the church nor are they theologically equipped to contend with Greg on any biblical matter.

B: – Is there any hope for Moonee Ponds Baptist Church if this is the reality of our circumstances?

***********

You, the reader may have many questions. Such as –

What’s the big deal? Is there anything wrong or sinful for a real Christian to go and support a conference such as the Hillsong one held in Sydney? Who spoke at Hillsong 2014 and does that matter? What was the cost?

Let’s answer the questions briefly and direct the readers to the additional material so each person can work out the truth for themselves.

*    It is a big deal because Hillsong Church is not a godly church as defined by the Bible; Hillsong Church is in the worst category when compared to the churches in the book of Revelation chapter 2 and 3. No discerning Christian, let alone a Senior Pastor of a Baptist Church should be seen in such a place. Hillsong “church” has an unhealthy focus on the prosperity Gospel – among their many other false theologies. As Baptists, our doctrine is very different to what Hillsong espouses.

To understand the differences, consider the following questions: Do we see Baptists Speaking in Tongues? – No? Or Prophesying? – No? Or preaching about giving 26% of our gross income to the church – on top of our weekly offerings? Ah, Yes!! At least Greg already that had that in common with the “Word of Faith” and “prosperity gospel” movement.

As Baptists, we believe that spiritual gifts such as Tongues, Healing, Visions, and Prophesy were given at a time and place for specific purposes. These were gifts which served as signs to edify the church, and they served a special purpose before written scripture was made available. We now have the complete (canon) Bible; we believe such spiritual gifts are uncommon today (if they exist at all) and would not serve the purpose they did in the first-century church. If Greg believes that these spiritual signs and gifts still exist today and that they are proof of believer’s spiritual maturity or even confirmation of one’s salvation (as some Pentecostals believe), then why doesn’t Greg speak in tongues? Sure, he says things at times which no one understands, but it’s still in English. But if Greg believes that Hillsong’s theology (such as the prosperity gospel) is wrong, why does he spend so much time and money going to a spiritually unhealthy place? Something is not right here.

Let’s consider the Hillsong 2014 Speakers. Numerous Guest Speakers such as Brian & Jen Johnson, Bill Hybels, Louie Giglio, Matt Redman, Robert Madu, Steven Furtick (and Brian Houston) spoke at the conference.

All the speakers mentioned above are famous for propagating the prosperity gospel – but let’s take the example of one speaker – Bill Hybels.

Here are some excerpts from http://eliora.hubpages.com/hub/ELEPHANT-IN-THE-ROOM-WHAT-IS-WRONG-WITH-WILLOW-CREEK-CHURCHBILL-HYBELS

“Bill Hybels founded the church on the marketing ideas of Peter Drucker who successfully applied them to business management before directing his attention towards the mega-church. Rick Warren (remember that name? – Greg’s favourite Pastor), Bill Hybels and Bob Buford were all mentored by Peter Drucker, and all three of them seem to have been almost mesmerised by him. Drucker plainly denied being a “born again” Christian and was heavily influenced by the mysticism of Kierkegaard (http://apprising.org).” (So, a non-Christian mystic is the coach of Greg’s teachers and idols? Can an ungodly source produce godly fruits? The Bible warns us not to walk in the counsel of the ungodly. You’ve got to try and read it Greg.)

“The desire of Willow Creek (Bill Hybels’s church) is to attract “customers” to the church with the market-driven seeker-sensitive model, and numerically this has been hugely successful (listen carefully to Greg’s “sermons”, and you’ll hear similar market-driven, seeker-sensitive message). After surveying the community, Hybels designed his Sunday morning services to meet the “felt needs” of non-believers with programmes and entertainment, his focus being on “personal fulfilment”. There are problems biblically with this method because the perceived needs of people are often not what God defines as their real need i.e. salvation. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:9) The seeker-sensitive method avoids offending people with the core message of the gospel – the seriousness of sin, the need for repentance and eternal punishment for those who don’t believe in the finished work of Christ on the cross. Instead it is based upon self-esteem rather than self-denial and personal fulfilment rather than on repentance of sins, in other words, it is all about the individual rather than Jesus Christ. The seeker sensitive approach is a method that promotes men-pleasing as against God-pleasing. (1 Thessalonians 2:4) The danger is that this approach produces false converts because attendees of seeker-sensitive churches never repent of their sins nor do they believe the gospel message in its entirety (Colossians 1:25).”

If this is who Greg went to listen to, one must wonder if Greg has similar plans for our church i.e. to apply the seeker sensitive model to the Moonee Ponds Baptist Church. All evidence seems to point in that direction. All this in the name of growing and building the church – but Jesus says, in Mathew 16:18 that He is the one who will build the church. – Not Greg, not Brian Houston, not even Rick Warren – all that the Pastors are called to do is to faithfully preach the Word of God, and God will do the rest. No need for all this worldly management gimmickry, as it serves no godly purpose.

So, what about Brian Houston – the Hillsong “Pastor”?

“One by one, the huge mega-churches with their 5,000+ member congregations are beginning to reveal their true agenda. The Emergent Church, powered by the Rick Warren machine, is a huge promoter of Chrislam, the demonic hybrid of Christianity and Islam. Now Hillsong United in Australia has thrown their hat into the same ring.”

Here’s a quote from Brian’s sermon back in December 2013.

http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=17743

“How do you view God? In a desert there’s two types of birds: there’s vultures and there’s hummingbirds. One lives off dead carcasses, rotting meat. The other lives off the beautiful, sweet nectar in a particular flower on a particular desert plant. In the same desert, they both find what they’re looking for.

“Do you know—take it all the way back into the Old Testament and the Muslim—and you, we actually serve the same God,” he said in the sermon. “Allah to a Muslim; to us, Abba Father God.”

You can listen to part of that “sermon”, from the link above or find the whole sermon online but taking a hammer and pounding it on your head would be a better use of your time than listening to that satanic drivel.

To be fair, Brian tried to retract what he had said but ended up lying and contradicting himself.

Any guesses who was one of the main speakers for the 2013 Hillsong conference and the speaker for 2015 conference? Yes, the one and only Rick Warren! I know someone who won’t (and didn’t) miss that.

What was the conference cost?

$199.00 to $329.00 – that’s for the entertainment but if you want to hear the Gospel, that’s free, but you probably won’t hear that at the Hillsong conference.

Even secular media recognises the Hillsong  “church” for being a money hungry organisation. To get a better understanding of the damage Hillsong has done to the name of Christianity in Australia, read the articles from the link below –

https://hillsongchurchwatch.com/2012/10/11/why-you-need-more-money-introduction-2/

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3 thoughts on “Baptist Pastor goes to Hillsong Conference!

  1. To the Pastor’s Wife.
    At the church meeting where a member exposed your husband – the pastor, of lying, and being abusive, you made a comment that should not be ignored. You said, “if you think Greg is lying every week when he preaches, why do you still come to church?” What you meant to say is that anyone who disagrees with the pastor, regardless of the wrongs the pastor does, one should just shut up and leave the church. Please remember that the church decides which pastor serves us; neither the pastor nor his wife gets to decide who should or should not remain the in the church. Remember it’s the contributions of the members that pay the ridiculously high wage of the pastor.
    On the surface and in other contexts, what you said would make sense; in that, it’s not smart to keep going to a place where there’s nothing to gain, but much to lose. But here we are speaking in the context of church life.

    If we thought like you, should we tell the children abused by the Catholic church just to keep quiet and leave the church? I’m not saying that your husband sexually abused anyone in Moonee Ponds Baptist, but by his admission- in his words and in the manner which he conducts himself, he has been abusive. Maybe you missed member’s statement where he said that Greg was caught lying and being abusive and he has the evidence in emails. Even if BUV makes every attempt to cover up such behaviours, the truth will eventually come out and but not in the manner BUV or the church leadership would prefer.
    Is it not more reasonable to say, that Greg should leave to the church since he was caught lying, preaching things that contradict the Bible, showing porn to the church, and now has admitted to insulting people for disagreeing with him? Have you noticed that the people who Greg has victimised have been a lot kinder to him than he is to them? No one is asking Greg to leave the church, just that he behaves in a manner that is worthy of his calling.

    In a church when the pastor is abusive, we are not meant to run away – we are meant to report these behaviours first to the church leadership, and then to the church. When these avenues fail, then one may treat the pastor as an unbeliever – thus opening the door to get such behaviour investigated by external parties, and the matter reported to the media, so the whole world will see how corrupt a church can get.

    Greg and the church leadership has had sufficient opportunities to correct the matter. Greg should have made every effort to be an example to the church, but he has been anything but an example that the church can emulate.

    You should also make your arguments from the Bible; what you said displayed an emotional interest in the welfare of your husband – but it was not the right thing to do.
    1 Timothy 5:20 But those elders who are sinning you are to reprove before everyone, so that the others may take warning.

  2. Paul – please publish this comment.

    Bully with a bible!
    Is Greg a bully? It’s hard to believe that he is, considering he supports a wimpy football team. Bullies tend to support tough winning teams.
    I had to weigh the evidence, and the evidence is hard to ignore. Evidence must lead even an unreasonable person. Many of Greg’s past and some of his recent behaviour strongly suggests that he is a bully. But Greg is “A bully with a bible!” He surrounds himself with weak leaders who are incapable of challenging him, even when they know that what he has done is blatantly wrong. They openly support him, in the face of all his behavioural issues.

    Consider the following incidences:

    Greg shows porn in the church.
    – The leadership completely ignores it.
    Greg justifies adultery.
    – A deacon comes out and openly supports him. Without reading too much into the marriage situation of the deacon who came out supporting a pastor who justifies adultery on a public forum, we must thoughtfully consider what else has the leadership compromised to protect this false teacher.

    Greg bullies and asks people who disagree with him to leave the church.
    – The leadership supports Greg’s position.

    Greg distorts bible passages and lies from the pulpit.
    – The leadership continues to support Greg.

    Greg intimidates members and silences any dissenting voices
    – The leadership ignores it and fails their duty of care.

    Greg promotes fornication and baptises people who are living together without being married. Greg allows them to become members of the church when they are openly living in sin.
    – The leadership turns a blind eye.
    Greg misuses church money and preaches that members give 26% to the church.
    – The leadership does nothing to correct the Pastor’s lies and misrepresentations of the Bible.

    This is not a complete list; the full list is much longer. I’d encourage others to post their experiences of how Greg has hurt them. How else can we tell if Greg is a bully? Explore what Dr Randy White says about pastors who bully members of their congregation. Dr White is a theologian who many Christians regard as a voice that speaks up for the truth and exposes false teachers. Some of Dr White’s comments are followed by mine – in italics.
    If you want to read the whole article, below is the link.
    https://randywhiteministries.org/articles/on-bully-pastors-and-bully-pulpits/
    ———————————————————————————————-
    “How do you deal with a bully pastor?”
    Bullies exist in all walks of life—even in the pastorate. I’m willing to bet that if I were to ask you about a time in your life when you were bullied, you’d have an experience to share. It’s an unfortunate rite of passage, especially during those awkward adolescent years, that most people endure but ultimately overcome. Whether it was another student, a co-worker, or a parent, you know what it means to be bullied.
    But you may not know what it means to be bullied by a pastor. For instance, I’m willing to bet your pastor has never stopped you in the hallway right before a service, grabbed you by your freshly pressed lapels, and thrown you against the wall while asking for your lunch money.
    – Greg insists that I give 26% of my earnings to the church – one could call that “asking for my lunch money!”

    But has your pastor ever taken a few minutes (or even a whole sermon) to criticize another church or ministry? Or has he beaten his fists on his pulpit shouting fire and brimstone at the ample ways your church has been woefully under-giving?
    – Yes, he has! Yes, he has. Except he’s got small and delicate hands and does not have a pulpit to thump on. Greg’s too cool for a pulpit – at least he thinks he’s cool.

    Essentially, a bully pastor is one who says, either by word or deed, “I have no place for you.” He has no available time, no interest in your opinion, and no recognition of your role as a thoughtful Christian. A bully pastor doesn’t make himself available and often believes himself to be like Moses on Mount Sinai: all alone and the closest to God. Such a pastor doesn’t need your input because he already knows everything. And if you waste his time, you may have wasted his most precious commodity.
    – Greg has no place for anyone in the church unless one contributes large sums of money to the church. Greg knows everything, especially everything in the bible and he even knows things that the bible is silent on; at least Greg thinks he knows everything. Greg knows Angels have no wings, Mary was 13 years old when she gave birth to Jesus Christ, Church meetings never took place in the early churches and so is forbidden, and the list goes on.

    Consequently, this bully pastor may use his pulpit to criticize those who have spoken against him, even if those people are within his church. Personally, I have to watch against such creeping pride, and I’m convinced every man of God must do the same.
    – How many times has Greg preached about people who are “gossiping about him” and are “willing to resists and fight.” Greg not only criticises those who have spoken up about him or people who catch him lying or preaching heresies, but he’ll also find a way and make them leave the church.

    We live in a world where people are having their ears tickled by pastors around the globe. We were warned this would happen in 2 Timothy 4. Sometimes a bully pulpit can be used for the right reasons. Not All Who Tear Down Are Bullies.
    Maybe the bully pastor in question is attempting to exhort his members with Scripture toward biblical truth and a worldview that results from such spiritual teaching. If that’s the case, he likely won’t be popular. His church may even accuse him of “just correcting his church” all the time instead of “lifting them up.”
    I strongly believe today’s church needs more biblically based tearing down than comfort-yielding building up. If this bully pastor is preaching biblical truth that his church members find hard to hear, he’s not a bully pastor; he’s a theological demolitions expert clearing the way for a stronger spiritual house to be constructed.
    – But this is not the case with Greg. Greg refuses to preach about, in his own words “any controversial issues.” He does not speak up about same sex marriage, homosexuality, adultery (Greg condones adultery and justifies it), pornography (Greg showed pornography – in the church!), fornication (live-in relationships – in fact, he baptises fornicators). Greg does not care how you live; he only cares that you give your tithe to the church.

    You likely already know if your pastor is a bully or not, but if you have any latent doubts, answer these questions.

    1. Is your pastor available?
    If you had to call your pastor at this very moment, even if it wasn’t an emergency, could you? Or, so as not to be so demanding of his time, could you call his office and schedule an appointment with him tomorrow, or the next week, or the next month? To be blunt, if you can’t visit your pastor face-to-face within a reasonable timeframe, you don’t have a pastor. (Also, I’m not talking about a pastor. Rather, I’m talking about the pastor, and you know who that is for the church you attend.)
    – Yes, Greg is available in the church on Sundays mornings between 9:30 am to 11:45 am; he’ll hear you out if you tell him how cool he is or how awesome his sermons are. But do you have Greg’s mobile number? Have you been invited to his house? Does he visit people in their homes? Only the few who are giving a lot to the church can answer those questions in the affirmative. For the rest of us, Greg is just a stranger, a stranger who takes about a $100,000 home a year for preaching ungodly rubbish from the pulpit.
    – No one can call Greg. His phone number is not listed, and he refuses to own a mobile phone. Funnily though, he has every member’s numbers so he can get in touch with them when he needs them! A tiny bit hypocritical, if one may say so?

    2. Does your pastor know you?
    You may not be friends. You may have only spoken a few times. You may not have ever even seen your pastor outside of your church. But does your pastor know you? If he saw you at the grocery store, would he recognize you? Even better, would he initiate conversation with you?
    I lament the church growth movement and its leaning on the “bigger is better” mentality. Megachurches have likely suffered from the adverse effects of one person “pastoring” tens of thousands. In my opinion, there’s simply no way for that pastor to truly pastor that church. A pastor is a shepherd, and a shepherd knows his sheep by name.
    – Greg does not know what I do for a living but he knows how much each member gives to the church and he would prefer it that everyone to did a direct bank transfer. He knows the names of the members who contribute significant amounts of money and he loves them. Oh, he really loves them.

    3. Does your pastor speak the truth?
    Even if your pastor speaks a word from the Bible that cuts you to the core, can you hear those words and still say, “That’s the truth?” If his sermon feels more like a Band-Aid® suddenly being torn away from your flesh rather than it being gently removed, can you still say, “Amen?”
    Does he hold unswervingly to the Bible regardless of the ebb and flow of popular culture (and even church culture)? Is he the same person behind the pulpit as he is in the grocery store? Does he speak the truth from a life aligned with the truth?
    – Greg does not speak the truth even about speaking the truth. He lies to cover up his other lies and then re-defines what lying really means –like Bill Clinton did.
    4. Does your pastor open and teach the Word of God?
    This ought to be a rhetorical question for today’s pastors, but its answer can’t be taken for granted, unfortunately. As I wrote last week, many churches seeking to hire pastors don’t ask about applicants’ theological understandings because these churches assume that applicants have at least a rudimentary understanding of the Bible. That’s not always the case.
    Can you ask your pastor a biblically based theological question and receive a coherent, thoughtful reply? He doesn’t have to showcase a Doctorate of Ministry-level vocabulary, but he ought to be able to easily enter into a biblical discussion with you. And if you dig further, he ought to be able to hold his own, or at least point you to other books or resources that can help you.
    – One rarely sees a Bible in Greg’s hands? He’s too cool to be seen with a bible. He just prints his old sermons and reuses them. If you listened carefully to Greg’s sermons and compared it with what the Bible teaches, you would be so upset, you’d be tempted to fling your shoe at him – mid-sermon, specifically If your shoe was unusable and had a foul smell emanating from it, just like it does from Greg’s sermons. It would not be an exaggeration to say that Greg does not have even a rudimentary understanding of the bible.

    Today’s pastors ought to be theological experts, and we should hold them to such a standard.
    To summarize, if your pastor is available, knows you, speaks the truth, and knows the Bible, he’s not a bully pastor.
    – Greg is not available, does not know most members, does not speak the truth and does not know the bible! He lies, manipulates outcomes, humiliates members, pushes people out who disagrees with him, but the leadership will not deal with the bully!
    ———————————————————————————————-

    If you do not like Dr Randy White’s summarization, then see for yourselves what other theologians say about pastors with behaviours similar to Greg’s.
    http://www.preachitteachit.org/articles/detail/five-toxic-behaviors-in-the-pulpit/
    http://www.piratechristian.com/berean-examiner/2016/1/20-ways-pastors-can-become-domineering-bullies
    The points raised by the different bible teachers are similar to what has been addressed in this article. So how do we deal with a bully? We call it out.

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