Bully with a bible!

Published from a comment.


Is Greg a bully? It’s hard to believe that he is, considering he supports a wimpy football team. Bullies tend to support tough winning teams.
I had to weigh the evidence, and the evidence is hard to ignore. Evidence must lead even an unreasonable person. Many of Greg’s past and some of his recent behaviour strongly suggests that he is a bully. But Greg is “a bully with a bible!” He surrounds himself with weak leaders who are incapable of challenging him, even when they know that what he has done is blatantly wrong. They openly support him, in the face of all his behavioural issues.

Consider the following:

Greg shows porn in the church.
– The leadership completely ignores it.

Greg justifies adultery.
– A deacon flagrantly defends him on a public forum. Without reading too much into the marriage of the deacon who came out shielding a pastor who justifies adultery, think about what else this leadership has and will compromise to protect this false teacher.

Greg bullies and asks people who disagree with him to leave the church.
– The leadership supports Greg.

Greg distorts Bible passages and lies from the pulpit.
– The leadership continues to support Greg.

Greg intimidates members and silences any dissenting voices.
– The leadership ignores it and fails their duty of care.

Greg promotes fornication and baptises people who are living together without being married.
– The leadership turns a blind eye.

Greg misuses Church’s money on insignificant things and preaches that everyone gives 26% of their earnings to the church.

– The leadership does nothing to correct the Pastor and his perversion of the Bible.

That’s not a complete list; the full list is much longer. I would encourage others to post their experiences of how Greg has hurt them.

How else can we tell if Greg is a bully? Explore what Dr Randy White says about pastors who bully members of their congregation. Dr White is a theologian who many values as a voice that fearlessly speaks up for the truth and exposes false teachers. Some of Dr White’s comments are followed by mine – in italics.

If you want to read the whole article, below is the link.
https://randywhiteministries.org/articles/on-bully-pastors-and-bully-pulpits/

———————————————————————————————
Dr Randy White – 

“How do you deal with a bully pastor?”
Bullies exist in all walks of life—even in the pastorate. I’m willing to bet that if I were to ask you about a time in your life when you were bullied, you’d have an experience to share. It’s an unfortunate rite of passage, especially during those awkward adolescent years, that most people endure but ultimately overcome. Whether it was another student, a co-worker, or a parent, you know what it means to be bullied.
But you may not know what it means to be bullied by a pastor. For instance, I’m willing to bet your pastor has never stopped you in the hallway right before a service, grabbed you by your freshly pressed lapels, and thrown you against the wall while asking for your lunch money.

– Greg stated that everyone should be giving 26% of their income to the church, but that he’ll settle for less – one could call that “asking for my lunch money!”

 But has your pastor ever taken a few minutes (or even a whole sermon) to criticize another church or ministry? Or has he beaten his fists on his pulpit shouting fire and brimstone at the ample ways your church has been woefully under-giving?

– Yes, he has! Yes, he has. Except he’s got small delicate hands and does not have a pulpit to thump on. Greg’s too cool for a pulpit – at least he thinks he is cool.

Essentially, a bully pastor is one who says, either by word or deed, “I have no place for you.” He has no available time, no interest in your opinion, and no recognition of your role as a thoughtful Christian. A bully pastor doesn’t make himself available and often believes himself to be like Moses on Mount Sinai: all alone and the closest to God. Such a pastor doesn’t need your input because he already knows everything. And if you waste his time, you may have wasted his most precious commodity.

– Greg has no place for anyone in the church unless one contributes large sums of money to the church. Greg knows everything in the bible and he even knows things that the bible is silent on; at least Greg thinks he knows everything. Greg knows Angels have no wings, Mary was 13 years old when she gave birth to Jesus Christ, Church meetings never took place in the early churches and so is forbidden, and the list goes on.

Consequently, this bully pastor may use his pulpit to criticize those who have spoken against him, even if those people are within his church. Personally, I have to watch against such creeping pride, and I’m convinced every man of God must do the same.

– How many times has Greg preached about people who “are gossiping about him” and “resist change and are willing fight?” Greg not only criticises those who have spoken up about him or catch him lying or preaching heresies, but he’ll also find a way and make them leave the church.

We live in a world where people are having their ears tickled by pastors around the globe. We were warned this would happen in 2 Timothy 4. Sometimes a bully pulpit can be used for the right reasons. Not All Who Tear Down Are Bullies.
Maybe the bully pastor in question is attempting to exhort his members with Scripture toward biblical truth and a worldview that results from such spiritual teaching. If that’s the case, he likely won’t be popular. His church may even accuse him of “just correcting his church” all the time instead of “lifting them up.”
I strongly believe today’s church needs more biblically based tearing down than comfort-yielding building up. If this bully pastor is preaching biblical truth that his church members find hard to hear, he’s not a bully pastor; he’s a theological demolitions expert clearing the way for a stronger spiritual house to be constructed.

– Greg refuses to preach about, in his own words “any controversial issues.” He does not preach on or speak up against same sex marriage, homosexuality, adultery (Greg condones adultery and justifies it), pornography (Greg showed pornography in the church!), and fornication (he baptises fornicators). Greg does not care how you live; he only cares that you give your tithe to the church.

You likely already know if your pastor is a bully or not, but if you have any latent doubts, answer these questions.

  1. Is your pastor available?
    If you had to call your pastor at this very moment, even if it wasn’t an emergency, could you? Or, so as not to be so demanding of his time, could you call his office and schedule an appointment with him tomorrow, or the next week, or the next month? To be blunt, if you can’t visit your pastor face-to-face within a reasonable timeframe, you don’t have a pastor. (Also, I’m not talking about a pastor. Rather, I’m talking about the pastor, and you know who that is for the church you attend.)

– Yes, Greg is available at the church on Sundays mornings between 9:30 to 11:45 am; he’ll hear you out if you tell him how cool he is or how awesome his sermons are. But does anyone have Greg’s mobile number? Have you been invited to his house? Does he visit people in their homes? Only the few who are giving a lot to the church can answer those questions in the affirmative. For the rest of us, Greg is just a stranger, a stranger who takes home $100,000 a year for preaching ungodly rubbish.
– No one can call Greg. His number is not listed, and he refuses to own a mobile phone. Funnily though, he has every member’s numbers so he can call them when he needs them! A tiny bit hypocritical, if one may say so?

  1. Does your pastor know you?
    You may not be friends. You may have only spoken a few times. You may not have ever even seen your pastor outside of your church. But does your pastor know you? If he saw you at the grocery store, would he recognize you? Even better, would he initiate conversation with you?
    I lament the church growth movement and its leaning on the “bigger is better” mentality. Megachurches have likely suffered from the adverse effects of one person “pastoring” tens of thousands. In my opinion, there’s simply no way for that pastor to truly pastor that church. A pastor is a shepherd, and a shepherd knows his sheep by name.

– Greg does not know what I do for a living but he knows how much each member gives to the church and he would prefer it that everyone to did a direct bank transfer. He knows the names of the members who contribute significant amounts of money and he loves them. Oh, he really loves them.

  1. Does your pastor speak the truth?
    Even if your pastor speaks a word from the Bible that cuts you to the core, can you hear those words and still say, “That’s the truth?” If his sermon feels more like a Band-Aid® suddenly being torn away from your flesh rather than it being gently removed, can you still say, “Amen?”
    Does he hold unswervingly to the Bible regardless of the ebb and flow of popular culture (and even church culture)? Is he the same person behind the pulpit as he is in the grocery store? Does he speak the truth from a life aligned with the truth?

– Greg does not speak the truth even about speaking the truth. He lies to cover up his other lies and then re-defines what lying really means – as Bill Clinton did.

 

  1. Does your pastor open and teach the Word of God?
    This ought to be a rhetorical question for today’s pastors, but its answer can’t be taken for granted, unfortunately. As I wrote last week, many churches seeking to hire pastors don’t ask about applicants’ theological understandings because these churches assume that applicants have at least a rudimentary understanding of the Bible. That’s not always the case.
    Can you ask your pastor a biblically based theological question and receive a coherent, thoughtful reply? He doesn’t have to showcase a Doctorate of Ministry-level vocabulary, but he ought to be able to easily enter into a biblical discussion with you. And if you dig further, he ought to be able to hold his own, or at least point you to other books or resources that can help you.

– One rarely sees a Bible in Greg’s hands? He’s too cool to be seen with a bible. He just prints his old sermons and reuses them. If you listened carefully to Greg’s sermons and compared it with what the Bible teaches, you would be so upset, you’d be tempted to fling your shoe at him – mid-sermon, specifically if your shoe was unusable and had a foul smell emanating from it, just like it does from Greg’s sermons. It would not be an exaggeration to say that Greg does not have even a rudimentary understanding of the bible.

 

Today’s pastors ought to be theological experts, and we should hold them to such a standard.
To summarize, if your pastor is available, knows you, speaks the truth, and knows the Bible, he’s not a bully pastor.

– Greg is not available, does not know most members, does not speak the truth and does not know the bible! He lies, manipulates outcomes, humiliates members, pushes out people who disagrees with him, but the leadership will not deal with this bully!
———————————————————————————————

 

If you do not like Dr Randy White’s summarization, then here’s what other theologians say about pastors who are like Greg.

http://www.preachitteachit.org/articles/detail/five-toxic-behaviors-in-the-pulpit/

http://www.piratechristian.com/berean-examiner/2016/1/20-ways-pastors-can-become-domineering-bullies

 

The points raised by the different bible teachers are in the same vein as what has been presented in this article.

How does one deal with a bully? We call it out!

 

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19 thoughts on “Bully with a bible!

  1. Reading this post, it could be said that the “bully is full of bull?” Or that going to your church and listening to your pastor preach is like going to the rodeo, “there’s a point here and a point there and a lot of bull in between?”

  2. Greg also refuses to preach on women leadership roles in the church, creation and evolution, music, rapture, second coming, and matters of salvation, among other things.

  3. Talking about women leaders in the church, can a person be a true Christian and blatantly reject God’s Word? I don’t think that’s possible. Anything that replaces God and His Word becomes an idol. If your church has women leaders, you can be sure they are resorting to extra-biblical explanations to justify staying in those roles. The most common explanation I hear is “women leadership was not allowed in the culture of the first century church but it’s allowed now.” Once they go down the path of culturally explaining away bible passages that they don’t like, what’s to stop them for explaining away anything else? “Homosexuality was not allowed in the culture of the first century church but it’s allowed now.” There’s a wave of feminism hitting the churches all over the world. If your church is infected by this plague, you should run away and go to a church where God’s word is honoured.

    1 Tim. 2:11 A woman must learn quietly with all submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man. She must remain quiet.

  4. Out of curiosity, how many women leaders are there in your church? Are there women pastors? And, do the women leaders have long hair or do they have short hair? From what I’ve seen, women church leaders prefer short haircuts – like Joyce Meyer or Ellen DeGeneres. They are generally into appearances and love wearing pants. Their husbands, if they married are typically passive and quite men.

    1 Corinthians 11:6 If a woman does not cover her head, let her hair be cut off. And if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.

  5. Hi Paul,

    I’ve been following your blog, and you’ve unearthed problems in the church that needs addressing. However, the past few comments about women leadership distract from the main issue.
    Greg could use these comments and get sympathy from members who see no problem with women leaders. It’s not wise to give Greg a foothold to campaign against the blog.
    I suggest that you remove these comments and stick to unraveling the theological and behavioral problems first. Once that is done, other issues can be addressed.

    Anonymous

  6. Please publish.

    A Cowardly Church!
    No one will believe it! This truth is stranger than fiction. A terrible thing was done by Greg (the pastor), Baptist Union and the church leadership but congregational members who are meant to be friends of the victim’s family does not even care. Not a tear has been shed, no sleep lost, and no effort made to undo the harm! The attitude is, “it’s no skin off my nose.”
    A good and god-fearing family was humiliated and chased out of the church – and all that for calling Greg out for the hypocrite and liar that he is. This family has made generous financial contributions to the church for many years, and they have given hundreds of hours of service to the church. They have been actively involved in the church for over 25 years. They got married, dedicated their children and raised them in this church. They have helped every time they were called on. But when they raised legitimate concerns about the pastor’s behaviour through proper channels, the pastor and the leadership found a humiliating way to get rid of them.
    If you are a congregational member of Moonee Ponds Baptist Church, Here’s a question for you. Can a person watch injustice take place, can do something about it, does nothing but still consider himself or herself a Christians? A Christian is not defined just by his or her outwardly claim of being a Christian; it’s proven by what a Christian does! That’s what the verse means, Matthew 7:16 “you shall know them by their fruits.”
    What Greg and the leadership did in Moonee Ponds Baptist Church is a shameful thing. It’s clear that the church leaders are sold out to Greg’s liberal agenda, and their callous attitude will ultimately kill the church. BUV will then swoop in and sell the church to maintain their extravagant lifestyles.
    Imagine a pastor who shows porn in the church, intimidates members, preaches things that are blatantly contradictory to what the Bible teaches and lies and manipulates the church. Imagine you summoned up the courage to confront this false teacher and informed the leadership, but instead of addressing it, they turn it around and make it as though the problem was you! What if this ‘twisting of the situation’ happened to your son, or your daughter, or your husband or YOU? Would you still keep quiet?
    How would you feel if no-one stood up for you! Imagine the pastor verbally abuses you, then spin the story and gets the church to vote you out – imagine if the church’s sold out leadership knew about all the complaints against Greg but did nothing about it.
    This pastor who won’t lift a finger even though he takes home excessive amounts of money. This pastor who abuses his power and wants to control everything to the minutest detail. Since this pastor took over the church, the church has become spiritually dead, it has become spiritually anaemic!
    Imagine your whole life you thought you were a Christian, and you die and on judgement day you hear God say to you “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoer(s)!”- Matthew 7:23.
    Will God welcome you, when you knowingly took part in evil? God will never welcome you! Because God is not blind, He is not deaf, He is not evil, but He is Just!
    Are you too afraid to confront Greg? The Bible says that the “Coward will not inherit the kingdom of God – Revelation 21:8” You desperately want to believe that verse is not talking about you, but you’ll still do nothing!? Every coward thinks and behaves the same way!
    So when you know the good things you should do and don’t do them, you sin! James 4:17.

  7. Wow, this is shocking information! Why won’t this pastor just lower his pride and do the right thing? Lowering his pride in private and making peace with the people he’s hurt would be less damaging than getting exposed in public.

    • Maybe he’s innocent Sam, maybe he’s not. If he’s not , and so far from all the evidences presented , it definitely appears so , he is willing to bring others down with him , even the Lord’s name , rather than repent! Shocking, I can only assume he has people supporting him , why else would he continue like this?

      Can anyone please tell me how many members attend this church ? When Mal Collins was there it had around 300.

  8. The 9th commandment says “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour…”

    It all sounds terrible. But…

    Did Greg really show porn in the Church? No. In 2015 he showed one (horrible) television commercial whilst making a point about the worlds objectification of women.

    Did Greg really condone or justify adultery? No. He explained how adultery commonly occurs, and the rationalisations that are used.

    Does Greg really misuse Church money? No.

    Did Greg really call for a 26% offering? No. He stated that if you added up all the offerings in the Old Testament, it totalled 26%. He joked that he would settle for less. He has never asked or compelled anyone to offer a particular percentage.

    Proverbs 6:16-19 “These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.”

    • A Skeptic, eh?
      What are you sceptical about? Not about Greg’s role as a pastor, his leadership or his theology, I suspect.
      Anyway, thank you for having the courage to speak up for Greg. You would not be one of those people who criticised the blog because the author is anonymous now, would you? But if you are and if you thought using a pseudonym is wrong and cowardly, why are you using one? What has changed? Unless I am wrong and your real name is ‘Skeptic’ and you are the husband of “Acoustic” or maybe you work for “Acidic” organisation that takes money from churches and support pastors whose churches contribute to your organisation?

      Let me not digress, lest you accuse me of attacking you, instead of your weak and misleading arguments.
      Bearing false witness is wrong, and the blog would be sinful if it’s doing that against Greg and his cronies in the leadership. But before I concede to your statements, let’s present more details and let the readers decide if the writer of the article is bearing false witness or if you are.
      Your statements indicate that you were present in the church and personally heard those specific sermons.
      You say Greg did not show porn in the church. Below is the link to the video that Greg showed in the church – during his sermon.

      http://www.theedge.co.nz/Paris-Hiltons-new-Carls-Jr-ad-banned-in-NZ/tabid/106/articleID/33274/Default.aspx

      You are accusing the writer of the article of falsely accusing Greg, and according to you, the video that Greg showed is not pornography. We can’t be sure what constitutes porn for you, but below is Merriam-Webster dictionary’s definition of the word ‘pornography.’
      Pornography
      1: the depiction of erotic behaviour (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement.
      Having watched that video, can you honestly say that it is not a video of ‘erotic behaviour’? Can you also say with a bible in your hand, that video will not have any effect on most men? You also used the word “horrible” in brackets to describe the video. So, you concede that the video was horrible – but why was it horrible? Was it a wholesome but yet “horrible” video? Do you see the double standard in your comment? You are calling it horrible, but claiming that Greg did nothing wrong in showing it to the church. Are you now going to state that it was horrible for a different reason other than that the video was adult material? No one alluded that the video was not a TV commercial. It is a TV commercial that was banned in some countries for its ‘adult rated’ content. Can you honestly say that your wife will be happy if you watched that video – three times? Keeping in mind Greg confessed that he watched this video three times?
      Yes, the video objectifies women – and that’s what pornography does. The video was banned as “rated material” – and that’s what makes it a pornographic video. Is it right to sin and let others sin to demonstrate that sin is wrong? What is Greg going to do next, punch his wife on her nose to show that abusing one’s wife is wrong? Watching and showing adult rated video (pornography) is sin – because the Bible says it is and your argument is against God and His Word. May be in your worldview, a video must be hardcore for it to be considered porn, but by definition and in the Christian worldview, what Greg showed, is pornography.
      You disagree that Greg justified adultery.
      According to you, Greg just explained the rationalisation for the act of adultery. Do you remember the sermon or is your memory as bad as your logic? I have the CD, and I’m happy to create a youtube channel and upload it. Greg set up a scenario of how adultery happens. Greg said, “all men are like dogs” and if the husband is not getting sex from his wife, which according to Greg is one of man’s three basic needs, then he’ll get it from elsewhere. The husband will start talking to his female colleagues, the chit-chat with soon change to personal conversations about his marriage issues, possibly over a coffee and they’ll finally end up in a bed together. Is this illustrations the actions of a godly man? Is it not a premeditated setup to commit adultery? Did Greg explain how a godly man is meant to sacrificially love his wife as Christ loves the church? He did not! Greg justified adultery and blamed wives for not giving “it” to their husbands when adultery does happen. Maybe in your universe, that’s not justifying adultery, but try that line of reasoning in your marriage and see if your wife says, “Fair enough, you didn’t get it here, so you went looking elsewhere! Welcome back.”

      Misusing church money.
      How much has been spent prettying up the church since Greg became the pastor? What was wrong with the carpet that it needed replacing? The front, to renovate it? Was there a need to install air conditioning in every hall in the church? Who instigated all these spending? Greg Did! These may all have been fair expenditures if the church had excess money, but the church doesn’t. Greg keeps complaining about our financial shortfall, he keeps asking the church to give more but keeps using church money on unimportant things. He also encouraged reducing the mission budget while his salary keeps going up. Again, in your universe that may be a wise use of God’s money, but not in biblical terms; in biblical terms, what Greg did is putting church’s money where “moth and rust corrupt.” Greg argues that beautifying the church will bring in more people, but has it?

      26% giving.
      Greg preached several sermons on giving. He said the model that God set for the Israelites was to give 26% of their income. He argued that the church is like Israel and that we are to follow the example of the Israelites. Greg set a groundless benchmark of 26% giving but the bible does not support his views. Unsurprisingly, you are not contending with that point. You should know that there is no such command in the new testament. Even tithing of 10% is not clearly mentioned in the new testament. Greg ignores the old testament for anything else – but when it comes to money, suddenly, he’s all for it.
      Can we compare a nation to the church? Israel consists of 12 tribes – the tribe of Levi and the priests are dependent on the contributions of the other tribes. Can you show me a bible scholar who conclusively demonstrates that the other tribes were giving 26%? Does the church work the same way as a nation? Why does Greg care so much about money? Is a hundred thousand a year not sufficient for a pastor who barely does anything and is with a wife who earns as much as he does?

      You’ve not raise Greg’s other blunders. Would you also condone Greg’s preaching that Mary was just 13 years old when she gave birth to Jesus Christ? Would you approve of Greg’s shallow understanding of God’s Word in preaching ridiculous things like – Angel have not wings, no church meetings should take place, pets may go to heaven, it’s ok to lie to children, plurality of God in the Trinity, his manipulation of the church in keeping the leadership in its current number, and thereby going against the church’s constitution and the list goes on.
      There are many problems with Moonee Ponds Baptist Church under Greg’s leadership, but instead of addressing the main issue – which is Greg’s bullying behaviour, you try to make the blog appear illegitimate by calling it a “false witness”.
      Many of the faithful have left the church, and the main reason people are leaving is that they were not spiritually fed in Moonee Ponds Baptist Church. Have you called anyone who has left the church and have a heart to heart chat with them? If you ask them why they left, the general answer is, “I was not spiritually fed.” Some left the church right after Greg screened the porn video. Most have not seen the blog nor do they care, they simply left because Greg is an appalling pastor.

      In defending Greg’s errors, you are approving of his sins and partaking in it.
      Romans 1:28-32 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done. They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God’s decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

      It appears you are the one bearing a false witness.

      • Thanks for the link & definition of porn, Anonymous. Disgusting ad. Was it beneficial for Greg to show this? No. He shouldn’t have done it. Was he trying to create sexual excitement? No. It is unlikely to cause sexual excitement – more likely revulsion. Therefore its not porn. If you are excited by that, go see a psychologist.

        Greg did talk about men sacrificing themselves for their spouse – In Happy Wife, Happy Life. As you have written, Greg described the process by which many men justify adultery. He wasn’t justifying it for them. Greg is agreeing with the Holy Spirit when He describes the importance of sexual activity within marriage to avoid temptation.

        “The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband. Likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife. Do not deprive one another, except by mutual consent for a limited time, so you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again, so that Satan will not tempt you through your lack of self-control.”

        Unless, you think that our Comforter and Friend is also justifying adultery, this complaint is flawed and without substance. It is false.

        Maintaining the Church building is not a waste of money. The carpet was 20+ years old, stained and coming apart at the seams. The air-conditioning is helpful in winter and summer, making the building more useful, more often. Have church members approved the spending? This complaint of wasting money is without foundation; it is false. (There is an interesting parallel here; Judas was critical of Jesus for wasting money! It isn’t a strong argument, you should quit this one while you are behind.)

        There is nothing to add for tithing. Greg described the OT accurately. The NT is not quite silent on the matter. He has not insisted on people giving more. Greg did joke about it, and he won’t make a living as a comedian. He doesn’t know who gives what. He doesn’t know who to schmooze for more. This complaint is baseless and false.

        Why are you so upset about pets? You do know that the bible describes animals in heaven? God clearly likes them. Why don’t you?

        Mary? On this you are right – the internet is full of arguments about her age and the Bible is silent. It is stupid to pretend to know for sure.

        “Do not add to His Words, lest He reprove you and you be found a liar.”

        No porn. Adultery is not condoned, instead a reminder that a healthy physical relationship in marriage is important. No chasing money, instead a reminder of sacrifice in OT. No wasting money, instead some needed maintenance of the property.

        Are you too proud to admit when you are in the wrong? If you do, you might be a better disciple than your enemy. Don’t forget, our Lord Jesus says something about loving your enemy too.

        • To Skeptic

          ”Was it beneficial for Greg to show this? No.”

          That was a good start from you too, if only you had taken your own advice and quit while you were behind.

          It was downhill from there on, you not only downplayed Greg’s porn video, you justified it. Your absurd claim was , if you get excited from that video you have mental illness and need a psychologist, thereby dismissing the role of sin. Tends to happen with false teachers, they like to twist Gods word, or do as you have done, ignore it altogether. Your position is not much different to Greg blaming the wife for the man’s affair. Greg shifted the blame from the man to the women, you are shifting the blame from Greg to anyone who thinks the video is sexually provocative.

          According to your understanding; it’s not porn, it’s not beneficial either, yet you have not explained what it was good for?

          Greg has now the luxury of time (generous amounts of it) to repent and make a public apology, seek forgiveness and explain himself, to date, nothing except shifting the blame (once again) from himself, to those week minded people who got offended. ”I’m sorry if you were offended” was his only response. In other words , you, the weak, sensitive minded individual is at fault. let that sink in for a while, since we are discussing adultery, the scenario is , a man has an affair, he then thinks in his heart, this is justified since the wife was not looking after me in the bedroom, just sorry she ( my wife) was so sensitive, she got offended, maybe not mature enough to accept it.
          ”Sorry you were offended” Really? Likewise, blaming the wife, now hes blaming the church. This is deliberate manipulation and watering down Gods theology with psychology, because after all, if you do not have theology on your side, let us invoke the god of this world and confuse their language, with wise hollow and deceptive philosophy which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ. Col 2:8. Sorry it won’t work here, you have been exposed.
          A woman is on all fours, bending over like a dog, wearing nothing but her bra and panties, in full view before the whole church, women , children and the elders…. and you know better than secular media, and Gods word.
          You can avoid Gods word if you like, relegate it to psychology, and in doing so, you are revealing that you believe its deficient in dealing with mans sin, it now needs outside help. However, for those who still believe that Gods word is sufficient, they can read the verses below.
          Math 18:6-9

          6 “Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to sin, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7 Woe to the world because of offenses! For offenses must come, but woe to that man by whom the offense comes!
          8 “If your hand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet, to be cast into the everlasting fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you. It is better for you to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire.

          ”Greg did talk about men sacrificing themselves for their spouse”

          Yet he demonstrated the very opposite, the man had an affair and it was not his fault, the good lady wife wasn’t so good after all, so it’s her fault.

          ” Greg is agreeing with the Holy Spirit when He describes the importance of sexual activity within marriage to avoid temptation.”
          That is not the contention here, you set up your version of events and then proceed to explain it away.
          Greg made it very clear that men love sex, they must get sex, if they don’t get this sex, they might strike up a conversation with another women at work, they’re just good mates, the man eventually tells the other women, ”I can’t remember the last time I made love (had sex)” and the rest is history. Poor wife , it’s now all her fault. Not only would that not fly in a secular relationship, it cannot be carried anywhere from the Bible.

          As to the rest of what you have written I will address that at a later stage, I will give you ample time to respond/reply to the above.

        • Hello there Skeptic

          Firstly, I must agree with Anonymous, thank you Skeptic for having the courage to speak up for Greg.

          To all the other bloggers on here, hope I’m not stealing anyone’s thunder. I plan to cover the maintenance, Judas, money… topic. You guys and girls can discuss the rest.

          ” Maintaining the Church building is not a waste of money. The carpet was 20+ years old, stained and coming apart at the seams. The air-conditioning is helpful in winter and summer, making the building more useful, more often. Have church members approved the spending? This complaint of wasting money is without foundation; it is false. (There is an interesting parallel here; Judas was critical of Jesus for wasting money! It isn’t a strong argument, you should quit this one while you are behind.)”

          That is true, maintaining the church building is not a waste of money. However, you seem to consistently set up your version of events, pretend this is representative as a whole, and then proceed to knock it down.
          So to answer your question, ”have church members approved of the spending?” does not follow from your logic until we first establish, if it was maintenance, or remodeling?

          Before we continue, please answer this question in your own head, keep it in mind as you read on; are half truths in your opinion lies? If you are unsure, I will remind you what the Bible has to say.
          Matthew 5:37
          37 Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil.

          In regards to the carpets.
          Were they replaced due to maintenance works, or were they replaced because Greg had the stage extended? And why did he have it extended, what was the purpose? Even if you answer both, it’s still a half truth, which according to the bibles definition, is still a lie. If you persist that it was maintenance, I can only conclude you have been lied too, or you are not a regular at the church, an haven’t a clue what you are talking about.

          In regards to the heaters.
          Your claim is maintenance. If so, what was wrong with the existing heaters? For the hour and a bit, on Sunday mornings it’s a lot of money for so little.
          From day one, Greg has been concerned with the aesthetics of the church, he made the ridiculous claim that this is what brings people to church. What people does Greg have in mind? If he’s concerned for the lost, how do nice carpets and new heaters save? If he’s referring to other Christians, then he’s running a business and not a church, in which case his god is his belly (Phil 3:19), and that would explain, why on so many occasions he has referred to his ”calling” as his job.

          In regards to the pews.
          Your comments did not include the pews, however I believe they are of vital importance.
          What is your explanation for his relentless push to have the pews changed, considering the fact, that it has nothing to do with maintenance?
          About 4 and half years ago, Greg said ”I ‘know someone that has visited this church, and that someone has sworn he would never be back, solely because the pews were so uncomfortable” he then reveals, that, that person was him. Not only, was this a huge insult to the church folks, it was a huge insult to the preacher, it’s like saying, my comfort is more important than the company of believers and hearing Gods word! Question; Was he just a visitor, or was he there for employment purposes? Even if you look at this as a half truth, it’s still a half lie, and according to the Bibles definition, it’s a lie and from the evil one.

          Let us continue,

          You ask the question, ”have church members approved the spending”? Since your question makes no sense, in regards to ”maintenance” it can only be answered in regards to the pews. And the answer is no, they have not, in fact the members have collectively rejected it. They were deemed far too expensive, and Greg’s initial costings are way, way off, off by approximately 100k. Yet like a dog on a bone, he refuses to let go.

          A member very innocently tells him he likes the pews, Greg then explodes and calls him names and repeats these words ”those pews are getting changed, and there’s nothing you can do about it!”
          The member did the right thing, and reported the incident to the leaders. Unfortunately, it was like the sheep going to the wolf to lodge a complaint. Then, enter BUV, they the BUV orchestrated and conducted another immoral and wicked meeting, rather than discipline the bully they chose to discipline the victim, under the pretense of ”vexatious complaints” even though the bully admitted to the abuse?

          During the meeting that BUV and, with full support from the church leadership, manipulated on faulty grounds, that it was to be (”church discipline”) when it was not, since as already mentioned, the bully admitted to the abuse. Had nothing to do with discipline, it was an exercise in humiliation to have the member removed. Without laying the ground rules clearly from the start, they were introduced at whim; for example, if you got up to speak once, that was it, you forfeited your chance to speak again. Surprise, surprise, Greg gets to have the final say! Right before the voting begins.

          Before all the members, and most importantly before God, right up on the very stage he preaches every Sunday, and on this very stage, the member accused him of lying, he once again, lies through his teeth, that he never said these words. ”those pews are getting changed, and there’s nothing you can do about it!”
          This member is willing to hold the Bible in his hand and swear on his salvation, will Greg be willing to do the same?

          ”(There is an interesting parallel here; Judas was critical of Jesus for wasting money! It isn’t a strong argument, you should quit this one while you are behind.)”

          Judas was critical of Jesus wasting money… very interesting that you should use that example. Firstly, let us examine the passage, and see if you are using it in the correct context, or just another half truth.

          John 12:6 He said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and having charge of the moneybag he used to help himself to what was put into it.

          So there you have it, Judas was a thief, he didn’t care about the poor, he cared about his business, just pretended it’s about the poor, words games, like maintenance juxtaposed with remodeling, then a couple of half truths thrown in. Hmm I see an interesting parallel here, or should I say parallels. You don’t have a strong argument, you should have quit this one while you were behind.
          At face value, without context, without quoting the Bible verse, it all sounds so convincing I am sure, however, just as the Bible says, until another comes along and corrects him.

          I do not know Anonymous mind, yet I can take a guess, he is concerned more for the lost and the poor than a pretty church building. Unlike Judas, he (anonymous) is not pretending its about the needy, all-awhile he is stealing the money. He is not pretending its about the maintenance while he’s growing his business.

          I have heard many people say, follow the money trail. What do you think Skeptic, should we apply this standard to the church? Should we apply this standard to BUV? And least but not last, should we apply this standard to you? I guess you cannot answer in the negative, since you already mentioned Judas, the thief.
          So let us continue and follow the money trail and see what we can uncover. You may wish to hold onto your hat for this one, as the ride could get a bit rough, and if there’s a conscience out there, it just might be pricked, well, one can only hope.

          Greg preached on money at least 3 times this year alone! The church scene is a weekly reminder and embarrassment to visitors that more money is needed. And only recently, Sunday the 25th of June, 2017, another one of Greg’s rich sermons, he says this ”so if you are earning over $180.000 per year, we should be making budget, and we’re not, you should have guilty conscience by now.”

          In line with how much money Greg’s household earns, interesting comment don’t you think? I know, I know, Greg was joking right? Of course he was, every time he’s caught out ”joke” to the rescue, ha ha everyone is laughing, how cute.

          Let us keep following the money trail.

          Greg receives his stipends from the BUV, BUV receive their money from the church, interesting cycle don’t you think? it’s a win win for both parties, you scratch my back I scratch yours. In logic that would be known as circular reasoning, but just like an illogical argument, its hidden under a few layers, church money doesn’t come directly from Greg, that would be too obvious, no, its conveniently hidden. What this does of course is create a conflict of interest. As an example; when the sheep complain about the wolf to the wolf, vicious cycle of NO accountability.

          Yet the plot thickens, well maybe. This one is said to Involve a Ex-pastor at BUV, rumor has it, he was a Judas in his previous church. Just before they (the members ) exited the BUV, money has gone missing, hmm, interesting don’t you think? I wonder if this poor chap didn’t earn enough money for all his holidays? Maybe now that he’s at BUV, he’s doing much better financially, so its happy days with holidays.

          Signed FMT

        • Skeptic, did you read the response to your original comment? Did you understand the correct meaning of porn? If you have, one must question why you are still sticking to your warped definition of it. Why don’t you go back reread it and see if you’ve truthfully addressed the points that were raised? You agree at the start of your comment that it was wrong; later you ended up arguing against yourself.

          Let’s break it down to simple phrases for you. You say the ad was “disgusting.” You also agree that Greg should not have shown it. The video was created to entice and excite its viewers. It works on the premise that ‘sex sells’. Normal videos are not disgusting, nor do they objectify women, the ad that Greg showed was sensual, and it objectifies women – so it would be accurate to categorise it as porn. You agree it was disgusting and Greg should not have shown it, can we then agree that it was sinful to show it to the church? In response to you, it was also addressed that a pastor should not use sin to demonstrate that sin is wrong. Did you read and understand that argument, or did you conveniently ignore it because you have no sensible rejoinder to it?

          Do you think the producers of the video made it hoping to get a disgusted response or a revulsion from its viewers? No! The video was created, with the known fact that ‘sex sells’ and that morning, out of sheer stupidity or lewdness, Greg was peddling sex. If your argument is that Greg was too moronic to know the difference, then we should consider the following other possibilities as well:
          – Did Greg show the video because his moral compass is so warped that he has lost all perspective of right and wrong? In Greg’s standards (of frequently watching such videos), that rated video was alright to be shown in a church filled with family members of all ages.
          – He has absolutely no spiritual discernment and so should not be a pastor?

          You have no virtuous grounds to defend Greg, and I suspect that’s one of the reasons you’ve used a manipulative pseudonym – “Skeptic”, seeking to make the readers of the blog doubt as to what the Bible teaches.
          Your impotent arguments are not against anyone commenting on the blog or the church folks who were disgusted and upset with Greg for showing the video; your pitiful argument is principally against God and His Word. But I suspect, that’s of little concern to you. I suspect that just like Greg you make a living off manipulating God’s Words.

          In your desperate attempt to defend Greg (and possibly your lifestyle) you have ended up sounding perverted and mildly demented.
          If you are a man and watching that video does not excite you, you’ve got serious physical, phycological, and spiritual issues. If such videos no longer excite you, then it’s dreadful to think what kind of videos would excite you. If you claim to be a Christian and watch such videos regularly, I encourage you to get on your knees and repent.

          It’s doubtful but remotely possible that you are a straight woman, in which case it’s obvious why such videos would not excite you, but if you are a married woman, would you be pleased if your husband watched that video 3 times? But I suspect you are not a woman, and I suspect you have a motive for supporting Greg.
          It’s also remotely possible that you are physically incapable of responding to such video anymore, in which case, my sympathies.

          But you cannot be an honest, normal Christian man and justify that video. I suspect that you are also not from Moonee Ponds Baptist Church, if you were, you would remember the member’s outrage. Most of the members of Moonee Ponds Baptist Church were horrified with what Greg did. Many men and women were distraught; many complained, and the deacons forced Greg to apologise. The following week Greg said, “I heard some of you were offended by the video last week; if you found it offensive, I apologise.” It was the most absurd apology. So ‘Skeptic’, was Greg wrong to apologise to the church for showing an adult rated video?

          That video will be Greg’s legacy. He’ll be remembered as the pastor who showed a porn video during service.
          You argue that the video would have likely caused a revulsion, rather than excitement. The Bible instructs us not to watch anything evil; it does not instruct us to watch disgusting videos three times and be revolted by it.
          Ephesians 5:3 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people.
          Psalm 119:37 Turn away my eyes from looking at vanity, And revive me in Your ways.

          In reading your comment, to the unaware, it would seem that the Bible does not condemn watching sinful things. But the bible does condemn watching evil and it condemns false teachers like you and Greg who approve of sin.

          2 Peter 2:14 With eyes full of adultery, they never stop sinning; they seduce the unstable; they are experts in greed—an accursed brood!

          1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world.

          Luke 11:34 “The eye is the lamp of your body; when your eye is clear, your whole body also is full of light; but when it is bad, your body also is full of darkness.

          Even King David fell in sin, and it started from “just watching.” King David was not revolted from watching a thinly cladded woman. Maybe it’s your arrogance or desperation, but you are not fooling anyone. In your twisted interpretation of reality, maybe King David and every normal man needs psychological help for lusting after women.

          This has been said before in the Blog and I request Paul to publish all those comments, Satan tempts us to sin, and Greg in showing that video, played the role of Satan that morning.
          You’ve made an absurd allegation, exposing Greg’s errors is not what his enemies would do. People don’t correct their enemies, on the other hand it’s not baseless to say that Greg in his false teaching is an enemy of the God of the Bible. If Greg confessed his sin, turned from it and changed his ways, it’s hard to see how the blog would continue to exist.
          Your other illogical, pitiable and ungodly arguments which you’ve spun based on an alternate reality, will be addressed in a different comment.

      • Paul, please publish those two comments. I bet that skeptic is a deacon and many hold his view. Publishing it will get a wider readership and help others understand the lies the leadership is propagating.

    • What happened, skeptic with ‘k’? Cat caught your tongue? Can’t come out with your real name? Caught in your false witness? Common say something! We are all keen to see your response.

    • Your suspicion about Skeptic being a deacon is wrong. The deacons were disgusted with the inappropriate video and they was very upset with Greg for showing it. They forced Greg to apologise to the church. No deacon would ever support Greg in this matter.

  9. “Plurality of God”

    I hope he corrects this sermon, because if not confused already, you should be, or perhaps no one even cares what is preached?

    There is only one God , not 3 gods .

    One God with 3 distinct natures, if you don’t understand the Trinity then don’t preach on it. Yes, it is a very difficult topic.

    In that case , why not Invite someone that can preach on this, or do more study , but don’t pretend you know and remove all doubt, it’s not helpful for anyone, misleads, even if unintentional, causes more confusion is all it does .

    I have heard several testimonies why people have left this church, the answers are usually quite similar .

    “It’s spiritually dead” and , “I wasn’t been fed spiritually”
    “Other parents don’t bring there children to church ”

    There are other reasons which one might find subjective in nature , for example; the church is very cold and not welcoming.

    Fixing the paint job on the church , is like the Pharisees cleaning the outside of the cup , beautifying the coffin, while on the inside , it’s full of dead man’s bones.

  10. On the subject of the trinity, since I noticed a few have mentioned it already.
    In his sermon on Joseph and Mary (July 2nd, 2017) Greg makes these very insulting and arrogant comments.

    ”I have been badgering you guys for 4 years about the trinity”

    So Greg, these people are so immature they didn’t know about the trinity until you came along? Is it possible maybe you don’t understand it? As Illia has pointed out ”plurality of God” what on earth?

    Greg remarks that ”we have almost nothing about Jesus life, prior to his ministry”

    Although that might be true, is true, what is his point in saying all this?

    He gives a silly analogy with him leaving his firstborn baby at home, alone, and then compares that with a 12 year old boy, sitting in the temple courts with the teachers. I don’t even remotely see the comparison, we leave our children alone with teachers at school and Sunday school…. all the time, if anything, Jesus parents should have known better, its why Jesus was able to say, Luke chapter 2 in verse 49

    “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”[a] 50 But they did not understand what he was saying to them.

    If Jesus was in fact fully man (part of the hypo-static union) he would have lead a normal life, suffered, worked, house chores, and all the other things young men do, and go through, only, it would have been exemplary , and an excellent example for other men to follow.

    “although he was a Son, he learned obedience by what he suffered” (Hebrews 5:8).

    He then asks why Jesus waited until he was 30 years old before more was written about him.

    As already mentioned, Jesus went through life like every other Jew. What was Greg hoping to hear, what he did at home, his fishing trips, his holidays, maybe Greg thinks people are interested in these things, why he spends so much time talking about himself, his holidays, his family, his sporting interests….why should the Bible waste valuable space on trivial matters when that is not its purpose. Greg might like to fill the pulpit time with such trivial matters, whilst the God does not.

    According to Jewish example, thirty was the age when a man was to reach full maturity and development, it’s when the Levites began their work of serving (Numbers 4:47) and scribes were allowed to carry out their tasks. So too Jesus as a Jew, he began his ministry in the fullness of time.

    Galatians 4:4-7
    4 But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons. 6 And because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7 So you are no longer a slave, but a son, and if a son, then an heir through God.

    ”Put your hand up, if you think Jesus still had to grow into all the fullness of been the son of god”?

    Greg answers with we don’t know. Notice: that is not the same as saying the Bible does not know, Greg would like people to think that, but is that true? He says it’s been debated for 2000 years….However, let’s see what the Bible has to say.

    Philippians 2:6-8
    6 Who, being in very nature[a] God,
    did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
    7 rather, he made himself nothing
    by taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
    being made in human likeness.
    8 And being found in appearance as a man,
    he humbled himself
    by becoming obedient to death—
    even death on a cross!

    John 6:38
    ”For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.”

    If Jesus emptied himself, and only did the will of the father, then what is even the relevance of such a question?

    If you listen to Greg’s opinion on Mary you would think she’s simple minded and dumb. Greg made repeated and numerous comments in regards to her faith, like that’s all she got.

    ”Mary teaches us you don’t have to know all those things.”

    ”She didn’t understand all the deep philosophical details of Jesus existence”

    “you and I have had 2000 years of sermons , debates….”
    ”she saw little signs….”

    ”I think her faith is based on a very simple creed….”

    How can this lowly view of Mary even be considered, when she saw firsthand the miraculous work of God, how is it simple to consider the Angel coming to her, she bares a Son as a virgin, she requested her Son who turns water into wine. She was there with Elizabeth and John the Baptist….How is it even considered faith when she is a firsthand witness? Not the first time Greg has dishonored Mary, we still remember when he made the sleazy and disgusting comment that Mary was just 13 years old, and a virgin! When God decided to impregnate her! All this irreverence , with zero biblical evidences to back that up, no wonder he has such a low view about Jesus mother, by Greg’s description it sounds like shes just simple minded, had simple faith, and understood very little .

    After such a whopping message we now come to communion.

    ”As you take communion I want you to think about those three things, to be yourself, you don’t have to pretend to God that you are anything you are not, as you are taking communion, all Jesus wants is that you meet with him in this moment…..all he wants is that we come before him who we are, who he made us to be…..so just be yourself, Jesus doesn’t expect you to be anybody else, and in this moment you might be thinking about some things that are not particularly pleasant, that you really don’t want to remember right at this moment , because Jesus might not be happy with it, this is the moment that you remember those things and lay them at the cross, just be yourself…..”

    Greg takes communion while he’s insulted and hated fellow brothers, he’s lied about them, manipulated the church, bullied members out of the church… and it’s OK folks, just be yourself. No need to deny yourself, die to self, repent from self, no, don’t do that, don’t leave your gift at the alter and be reconciled with your brother, that’s Gods way, do it Greg’s way instead, use psychology instead of theology. Feed self, love self, that nasty person who has hurt you, write their name on a piece of paper and throw it in the bin, in other words dump these people, they’re not worth it, they are just garbage.

    The Jesus Greg believes in doesn’t want you to examine your life and then repent, just be yourself, a liar, hypocrite and bully. So there you have it, the gospel of self according to Greg. He’s once again corrupted the Lords supper, fails to mention any repentance, any reconciliation , any penalties and dire warnings for taking the lords supper in an unworthy manner. Folks, I ask you, is this not the signs of a false teacher? If not convinced, contrast Greg’s gospel of self, with what the scriptures teach in regards to to communion.

    1 Corinthians 11:27-30
    27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves.30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep.

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